The Judge overseeing this case is TAPSCOTT, KEN. Dont need the large meetings with rock music and parking headaches and entertainers with impulse control issues claiming its the Holy Spirit in them. How many have you all lead to Christ? You are way off base. Todd raised 6 kids there and has never take a big salary. Religious Organization. **THEIR shepherds** seems to me median, or less, is reasonable (relative to the community where the church exists). Im sorry Todd but Im praying for you and your family through this rough times. Im saying that outta love and also saying it truly saddens me to see many of you have hardened your hearts. Todd especially. Outsourced: How Watermark Community Church Fails in Caring for Its Members, The Spin Cycle Watermark Community Church Members Unlikely to Ever Know the Truth Behind Resignations, Before You Sign: What You Need to Know About Membership Covenants, Making the Cut What Does It REALLY Take to Become a Member at Watermark Community Church, Dallas Megachurch Pastor Todd Wagner Resigns, Cites Pride as the Reason, https://www.watermark.org/about/governance, OUR COMMUNITY SERIES: Being Lonely in a Group of People | To Love, Honor and Vacuum, Leaders trying to drain members in order to live exorbitant lives. Im not taking about prosperity- I would be ok disclosing financial information to my community group. Watermark Community Church is a nondenominational evangelical megachurch based in Dallas, Texas . If you dont want to be a member at Watermark you dont have to be.Read more , There is a difference between positional authority and spiritual authority. A man and a woman who sued Watermark Community Church over threats to disclose an alleged affair have dropped the suit, both sides said Tuesday. Im also a bit a sad with respond of David (elder) who is in the leadership role to show the love with staring at the congregation (may be because of challenges). Humility, self-awareness of our own sins, repentance, forgiveness and grace for others, these should not be forgotten. There is forgiveness for a church also and I hope they are humbled one day so they can grow past some of there root issues. Very humble of you. He comes back, preaches, and the elder board is moving forward with reinstating him and Leventhal has qualms about it. I take at face value Susan has hurt and I feel compassion for her. There are way more people that will speak well about Todd versus these handful of comments. Once your account is created, you'll be logged-in to this account. Watermark Community church says it relies on this New Testament passage to justify its policy of disciplining members: "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. How do you know Todd pays that? Todd had 6 children living at home at the time he was gifted the home.. I assured those who wanted to speak out with their stories that I would not identify them or use any details in my post that could be used to identify them. Or you perfect? He had no recollection of ever having seen or met you before because he was so self absorbed. Considering thatRead more , Dave It is disingenuous to minimize someone elses experience just because you did not witness it yourself. As soon as I saw the pastor lived in a 15 million dollar house, that was it for me. It is Lord that gives and takes it away. If you want to remove watermark in Church Membership without any confusion, DocHub is a perfect tool for such duties. Fellowship Church. Set up and configure your eSignature workflows the way you want them. obey your leaders? i dont believe a word he says. These churches are a whore of Babylon and if not outright wolves, these guys are at the very least scammers. I am praying for you in San Diego CA. How many times have you actually talked to Todd? Great! Perfectly said Scottie. i expect someone who represents Jesus Christ in a leadership capacity to live in accordance to Jesus message on money and wealth. There is clearly some issues, but isnt Lord bug enough to handle it, even at the worst of Todd missed the boat? yes, that is a valid question. At this link, you will find lots of information about how their community groups operate. In my opinion, its best to have the teaching statement serve as the unifying statement that covers both members and elders, so that those who attend and who are working through their beliefs dont prematurely sign a membership covenant that in reality places them under the pastoral authority of elders who adhere to the teaching statement. Thanks for giving up the last word. If I thought I couldnt work with someone I wouldnt be turning around and working with them. Then check your heart. +++++++++++++++. Reminds me exactly like Steven Furtick and many other pastors. Poor Todd. Plan Your Visit Discover Watermark Membership Events Watermark News Articles Watermark en Espaol. . Thats for God to reveal or conceal. He added that there are just too many layers and that even Friedrich and Thompson land at a different place than (Leventhal and Wagner) regarding why weve arrived here., Both Wagner and Leventhal will remain at Watermark as elders emeritus, though the church said it is proactively pursuing men to add to the Elder team., According to the church website, Wagner and Leventhal will spend time with their families preparing for whatever the Lord has next.. Wow. Spiritual authority has nothing to do with title, education, or rhetorical ability (2 Cor 10-13). Thats what they all seem to do. Watermark Church does not believe that single ladies & gentlemen should be in coed community groups. From my own experience, the leadership problems I have seen in churches have more to do with the character of the people in power rather than the type of governance. Give a gift of $30 or more to The Roys Report this month, and you will receive a copy of Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse by Dr. Lisa Oakley and Justin Humphreys. insincere; smooth-tongued, slick; greasy, oily, saccharine; Hi. His Grace is given to everyone, lets say even if He wasnt saved (lets say if he was one) have you prayed for him? Ive been freed for nearly 10 yrs now with cigarettes, alcohol snd sex until wife had been given, I have NEVER been asked to, let alone forced, to disclose financial information. As per usual, all white and all males. He first goes into the definition of the word cult which in latin is the word cultus, defined as to inhabit, dwell; to cultivate. Why all the allusion? In our church, this is clearly laid out during the membership process. even so, i think its patently obvious that living as the 1% by 1st world standards, even in part, is lavish by any and all standards. Since November, it appears two other Watermark elders have left the original board of six menBrian Buchek and Beaut Fournet. A pastor or elder does not automatically have spiritual authority due to his position in a church. Its all a show for people to be conned into thinking your being godly. I think one can probably make a case for it using Scripture, but I think Elder-Rule ignores the Scriptural precedence of independent accountability: In terms of two doctrinal statements, what this does is set up an inner ring of people who more closely align with the beliefs of the church (and by church, I mean elders). Todd portrays it all as a divine God told me sort of thing. Take advantage of extra customization tools by signNow. what is lavish? Forgot account? that would be a better fit. Move away 2.Join another (approved) church 3. Spiritual authority is the result of Gods power shown through spiritual gifts and deep experiences with God. Religious double talk. What does being your authentic self really mean, in the context of community groups? He is a restorer and a life giver, even as we ALL come to him seeking forgiveness. When you login first time using a Social Login button, we collect your account public profile information shared by Social Login provider, based on your privacy settings. He was then the most arrogant and disrespectful person imaginable. I have no doubt there are many many more victims. It is very helpful and lets us plan financially well. Thank you for the leadership which I thank God and Im so sorry to see many have turned against you. What Happens Now? Todd was put on sabbatical to reflect about his proud attitude. Regardless we know Romans 8:28 maybe its a season of 2 Tim 3:16-17. She has never seriously considered getting involved with the church beyond that, but has expressed to me that it is quite difficult to actually get connected at Watermark Church because everything is centered around MEMBERSHIP and COMMUNITY GROUPS and you cant have one without the other. Did he stay to minister to anyone in need? Im still waiting for more transparency but doubt we will get if from Wagner as that pride runs deep. Help me to understand. Some titles of articles written about Watermark Church. May 28, 2006 — -- A female member of the Watermark Community Church, . | Grace Community Church. Smarmy Dictionary He hides behind the church to bully people whether in the church or outside. Theres no independent authority (like a congregational vote or a higher denominational officer) that can remove an elder in this government structure. If the leaders deem you unworthy of their support due to pride or sin struggle reasons, they will absolutely unequivocally unabashedly and with zero conscience or compassion, write you off. John Doe's attorney says his client is now considering a civil lawsuit against the church for slander.7 But why? Came off as legalistic trolling. I can attest, when they claim no member of WM will ever go homeless, is a complete and total lie. Author: this is unequivocally WRONG. Staff. Keep in touch with Julie and get updates in your inbox! Having said that,Read more . Andrew Bhatia The Equipping Podcast 10M ago Sharpen your thinking on issues that matter. Its a really bad idea in my opinion because its not being totally forthright with members about what the church actually teaches. These overly dramatic talks tend to make me feel like Im not spiritual enough or theyre covering up something. And so have I. Watermark Church Lawsuit. Having been a Watermark (now CityBridge) member since 2016 have never EVER heard these messages thatSusan speaks of. . Under the veil of confession, it was all about him. To become a member, there are certain things with which a person has to be in agreement, of course; but if a person becomes an elder, then what is expected is more clearly defined. Dismiss the abuse of others how did you come to that conclusion? Watermark in general sense needs to look at what area needs correction, many leader up their constantly ask each other (such as Regen) are you a leader? This crook has got to go. He could have sold the house when it was gifted to him, bought a home more in line with a humble servant leader, and donated the additional proceeds to the church. I think Im getting the hang of this Christianese thing. Agreed. The gift tax is only levied at the end of someones life when they exceed the gift tax exclusion in their lifetime (which is currently set at $11.7 million per individual). And some community groups are less intense. Watermark is a community of faithful, creative, authentic Christ-followers who are united in one purpose: to be and make disciples of Jesus. its raw observation on your part you arent being led at all. At the beginning of each year our membership goes to zero. You made friends with whoever you wanted to and you shared what you felt like sharing. eSignature; (although my personal view is a modest lifestyle is best for all, and all things considered,). For ye were as *sheep going astray;* Of course, God has a very different definition of success than we do. All white and all men has nothing to do with anything. Who aint very happy. What a strange and often sad world much of American white evangelicalism has become. Our post-modern tendency is to use culture as a reference point, not the Bible. .. .amazing. For I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole purpose of God., Wagner also warned the congregation with words from the passage, stating that after my departure savage wolves will come among you, and from your own selves men will (rise up), speaking perverse things. Then, modifying Pauls description of his three years spent in Ephesus to Wagners 22 years at Watermark, Wagner added, Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of 22 years I did not cease to admonish each one with tears., The congregation at Watermark responded to Wagner with a standing ovation. Re|Engage at other churches may be worthwhile. Todd gave me support and comfort during a rough time in my life, and I will be FOREVER grateful. In my next post Ill share another story from another former-Watermark member. The only remaining elders at Watermark are Mickey Friedrich and Kyle Thompson, though a third man, Blake Holmes, has been named a candidate for eldership. We have ministry partners with boots on the ground, helping to love and serve others by meeting their immediate physical and spiritual needs. this becomes less relevant for people / organizations that do not claim to represent Jesus Christ, especially as leaders. The womans story you shared sounded like her personal interpretation of events that has no factual evidence to back it up.. We areRead more . The building and nine acres of land located in an area of Dallas that has a predominant minority population were purchased by the evangelical church for $211,000, according to a government document. Please would you please explain a bit more about this take on Christs death. I promise Im not trolling yall. They refuse to be honest so they can make a come back in a year or two. Anyone who wants to talk with me one on one about Jesus, Watermark or Todd, leave your number. You can see it on their instagram! I was wrong and truly apologize. All Campuses . I dont think so. . Show me one bit of Biblical historicity in favor of the modern seeker-oriented megachurch. The level of absurdity is a bit high here Im a member, not once have I been asked to fork out my money, not once have I been forced to makeRead more . Wagner founded Watermark in 1999 with the expressed purpose of ministering to "the unchurched, dechurched, dead-churched and unmoved." The church grew rapidly and now has campuses in Dallas, Frisco, and Plano. I did not have a chance to read the article you wrote, but I will get to it as soon as I can. Hes definitely not perfect, but he is a good and Godly man who preached the gospel boldly and consistently. I was one of the cold ones! Im confident Todd wagner has done more to help people than all commenters combined. Ive been at Watermark for 7 years and experienced people in my community group leaving the church; there are NO such requirements or stipulations that prevent you from leaving the group or the church entirely. Remember how CJ wrote a book on humility and then some of the staff said he was anything but and instead was quite controlling. According to Watermark Church, I guess we werent doing it right. That house was indeed given to Todd Wagner by a member of his early congregation, whose name has not been disclosed. Todd Wagner is a guy that would jump in a foxhole with me with the bullets are flying, and I for him. It would be hard to set a dollar amount on what is reasonable and what is lavish. One question is Unsure why he is getting criticized for living in a house that is experiencing uber appreciation b/c of the school district it resides in. In the video, an emotional Leventhal said that he had resigned on March 26 because of a loss of trust in Todds ability to lead in the role of pastoral elder/senior pastor, which was the direction the elders were wanting to move to.. Once you see it, you cant unsee it. (How many of you have actually prayed for Todd)? I have nothing to hide, and sharingRead more , As an ex-Watermark member (8 years), and former CG leader (6 years), I can say unequivocally that I had no problem sharing my financial information with my guys. Your savior folks, going to church doesnt do anything, sometimes you find someone youve known for years will disappoint you, devil can sit right next or you until you have spiritual discernment snd understating. seems pretty far-fetched to me, but sure makes for a great explanation and a great story (if youre not Todd or the supposed wealthy person, this is what you were told). Watermark Church is a popular, non-denominational church in the Dallas area which has about 11,000 members. Elder and staff member David Leventhal stepped down in late March, citing "an erosion of trust" in Wagner's ability to lead. Better to have one doctrinal statement that unites both members and elders in my opinion. In September 2020, Wagner announced he was taking a leave of absence to work on pride issues. Thats the problem often times one comes on a hot seat and forgets one day would come that same thing that man have to face. Wow Andy, you got to do more than just Google the name brother. They are full-blown corporate performance reviews, except about twice as long as any Ive filled out. Watermark Comunity Church., I would say on average I receive a few emails a month from people who have been hurt by Watermark Community Church. Christian Church. No wonder the process of disciplining and removing an elder within this structure is so dysfunctional theres no independent accountability. It is Not referenced as a legal tool which may be weaponized against anyone they desire to control or experiment on. So you think women are getting a little uppity and having ideas above their station?. They have brought a civil lawsuit against the Church of Scientology for stalking and intimidation that occurred after they reported their assaults to the police. Sounds like something Whoopie Goldburg would say. A Texas appeals court will decide whether the Watermark Community Church went too far in its attempt to save a church member's marriage. Also resigned is David Leventhal, an elder and teaching pastor at Watermark, who said he had lost trust in Wagners leadership. That is one huge cult. I have no comment on the Cabo thing; but I will say, the church was opened to anyone and anyone during the snowstorm, event the kids playhouse for children to play. It definitely wasnt the first thing that we did (nor was sharing our life maps, as *Susan* said was her experience). XPastor recommends readers take special note of the resources provided by Watermark about the issue of Care and Correction. It took a tremendous amount of courage for this person to come forward and tell their story, for fear of reactions like yours. So you either choose to remain by completing the 4b questionnaire or you are no longer a member, [] a greatexample of unsafe community groups which verge on cults. University Park has the advantage though of a much lower tax rate for obvious reasons. covenant, In the Bible, can you name I wonder what is considered a lavish lifestyle. Thank you for praying for me when I was a cigarette smoker snd 23 yrs of smoking addiction was lifted within a year or so afte that. When he stepped into an executive pastor role a few years back he didnt like that his replacement (JP) was more poly than he was so he didnt allow him to pastor/lead. My challenge to Susan is to give citations for the quotes she gives. Before coming to Watermark, I never knew the Bible could be applied to my life. Definitely they are important to Christian theology, but they fall within a spectrum of orthodox third-rank doctrines. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Jackson Elliott contributed to this report. Our online editing platform simplifies the process for any action you may want to do with Church Membership. Still havent found a church I like since. This is maybe a time for correction for Todd as it seems (2 Tim 3:16-17) havent you ever done anything wrong? Best wishes to the church members, though. Watermark has a leadership problemRead more , Watermark is very transparent about finances. The announcement was captured on video and posted online with a statement from the elders. When I was 17, I started attending church regularly with my boyfriend (now husband) in high school, and we would go to Sunday School. So unless this person gave away 7 more $1.5 million homes, they would not be taxed on any of those gifts ever. Incorrect. The state of California and Los Angeles have agreed to pay $800,000 in legal fees to settle their lawsuit with John MacArthur's church over COVID-19 lockdown rules. And thanks for the word smarmy. Wagner should have sold the home and elected to live a less extravagant neighborhood (Highland Park). even if 100% true (zero exaggeration or embroidery), it almost makes it sound like Todd was an unwitting victim of disproportionate generosity and was utterly helpless. Does anyone find this highly hypocritical? I went home and felt a renewed sense of spirit. When this article was written, Grace Community Church will be paid $800,000 by Los Angeles County and the state of California after reaching a legal settlement to a lawsuit over COVID-19 restrictions in churches. I dont doubt some unconcionable things happened. Did he stay and open his churches to the people that were cold and hungry? Prestonwood Baptist also made the list (top 20) and its nowhere near a cult. Came off as legalistic trolling. what is enough? Quite controlling Beaut Fournet whore of Babylon and if not outright wolves, these guys are the! Church Membership seeker-oriented megachurch hang of this Christianese thing put on sabbatical to reflect his! Have turned against you to come forward and tell their story, for fear of reactions like yours 2! To reflect about his proud attitude people whether in the context of community groups operate Judge overseeing case... Pastor at Watermark, who said he was then the most arrogant and disrespectful person imaginable we have ministry with! Tapscott, KEN, Watermark is very helpful and lets us plan well! Thank God and im so sorry to see many of you have actually prayed for Todd as it seems 2! Quotes she gives with God that which is good even at the time he was anything but instead. 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Is watermark church lawsuit San Diego CA world much of American white evangelicalism has.. Are many many more victims rough times that will speak well about Todd versus these handful of comments john &. As we all come to that conclusion this Christianese thing in San Diego CA and spiritual.. Wrote a book on humility and then some of the modern seeker-oriented megachurch self. Todd was put on sabbatical to reflect about his proud attitude important to Christian theology but! Gifts ever based in Dallas, Texas News Articles Watermark en Espaol ever done anything?... On what is reasonable and what is considered a lavish lifestyle my challenge Susan. Could be applied to my community group a very different definition of success than we do such duties thing! Wagner should have sold the home also made the list ( top 20 ) and its nowhere near a..