Log in 24/7 to access your pets health care information. I will be taking radiation for 6 weeks but did not need Chemo. Tippens did some research and learned the drug is considered safe for humans, with no serious side effects. But theres little or no mention of supporting the bodys own healing ability. Sandy calls in to our Listener Line to ask her question. So its not going to be a cure-all for cancer thats for darn sure. It wont be a cure for a lot of cancers. All rights reserved. He was given 2-6 months 4 years ago and has been going strong with diet & nutrition changes. But my heart goes out to you. When used together, they dont seem to work against each other or cause any specific side effects. No cure. Panacur C treats all 4 major intestinal parasites in dogs. Dear Joe, If it is close to the time for the next dose, skip the missed dose and give it at the next scheduled time. Some of those are actually mentioned in The Dog Cancer Survival Guide, but fenbendazole, which is what Panacur is made of, is a really interesting one because who would ever think that something that we give to get rid of worms could possibly help at all in the treatment of cancer. Thank you so much! Credit: mdanderson.org. 2023 DogCancer.com, LLC. Time to ask Dr. Nancy Reese to do some research. Panacur C treats all 4 major intestinal parasites in dogs. Most doctors wont prescribe. It is easy to use, and there arent any scary side effects. May I ask what dose regime you were using? Please tell me the fenben protocol you used as treatment. You can get that at this website, DogCancerNews.com. Each dosage unit contains 22.2% of Fenbendazole. But every drug requires more work from the liver and other detoxifying organs to remove it from his body. Fenbendazole is branded under names like Panacur and Safe-Guard. Congrats! So, what does this drug have to do with cancer treatment? But we may find that its some sort of adjunct down the line that combined with something else, it will make a different drug, more effective or something along those lines. There were no signs of tumors anywhere in his body. This drug is often ignored because we use it on animals. But given that it started out in these mice, people started really thinking, well, what if we started using this in other cancers? God bless you, Joe, and heres to many more years of health for you. Dozens of tumors, Tippens wrote in his blog. Less vaccines and pharmaceuticals = less toxic insult to the body, especially the microbiome and immune system. This is simply not true in my experience. Can severe weather cancel the Houston Rodeo? Yes, I looked up this drug as I had heard another similar story to yours on curing cancer with this medicine! Joe Clark, can you tell me what dosage of Fenbendazole you are using? The American Kennel Club, Inc. 2022. Credit: mdanderson.org. What are your thoughts on dosage? Dog Cancer Answers is a presentation of Maui Media in association with Dog Podcast Network. Most importantly, watch how your dog feels . Or wait, does it make cancers grow bigger? Treating Cancer In Dogs: A Holistic Approach, Holistic vets explain: Natural treatment of cancer in dogs . Thank you again for your post, it provided me with hope and motivation. Im in the US. (NED) all cancer gone! Thank you for your question. How many Panacur-C treatments can we do? "Being a cancer researcher is a lot like being a professional gambler," he told The Sun. Even though the drug is generally safe, you still need to exercise caution. Heres your host, James Jacobson. Most conventional medications alsodamage the microbiome beyond the point that a simple probiotic supplement can remedy. While the Internet is a great source of initial information about drug dosages, your veterinarian may have his or her own reasons for adjusting your dogs dose and duration. So, what does this drug have to do with cancer treatment? Thanks for the info. It comes in the form of granules containing 22.2 percent Fenbendazole. Here is a recent link to a veterinarian explaining its effects and mentions the studies that have been done regarding Fenben & cancer treatment. Yes. Share on social media, download a PDF, print this out, or send this in an email to your veterinarian. Liquid forms must be measured carefully. What is your daily dose in your 3 days on and 4 days off regimen?? Give this medication as directed by your veterinarian. Im a veterinarian who specializes in alternative approaches for pets with cancer. And joining us to address this outside-the-box idea is our resident medical editor, Dr. Nancy Reese. Fenbendazole for humans, an anti-worm drug that is also anti-cancer, https://www.scitechnol.com/peer-review/fenbendazole-enhancing-antitumor-effect-a-case-series-2Kms.php?article_id=14307, Fenbendazole acts as a moderate microtubule destabilizing agent and causes cancer cell death by modulating multiple cellular pathways, Interrupt the sugar uptake in these particular cells, Help with drug resistance caused by cancer. Your veterinarian should help you advocate for your dog not just dictate protocols. In treating cancer, Ive found thatless conventional intervention often provides better results. I hope everything is great for you. I did the dosage in the video above for now. I believe god is there for us. But Ive seen definite success when we focus onsupporting the healing ability of the pet andlet go of the notion of fighting the cancer. She then uses tools such as ozone, herbs, CBD, essential oils, and whole food supplements to optimize the health of the body. And so that is, I think, where some of the, it causes cancer or it cures cancer came from, is that it was one combined it with vitamins and one didnt. Founded in 1884, the not-for-profit AKC is the recognized and trusted expert in breed, health, and training information for all dogs. Researchers are studying a dewormer for dogs and a pinworm medicine for people as possible treatments for glioblastoma and other forms of cancer. But, it cant compete with Taxol or other Vinca alkaloids. So they couldnt then do whatever study they were doing on the lymphoma. It is a safe drug with little side effects. Usually, during the hospital stay, chemotherapy is given continuously for a couple of days. Astounding. Fenbendazole is a drug used for parasite and anti-worm treatments in animals. Only veterinarians who examine your dog can give you veterinary advice or diagnose your dogs medical condition. I always respect peoples choices. Fenbendazole is sold under several different brand names, one of which is Panacur C from Merck, which is a canine dewormer. The Edmond, Oklahoma man was determined to live at least long enough to meet his first grandson, due in a few months. I will support their pet in any way possible if they choose to go this routel. The Fenbendazole still stops the tumor from growing bigger, but you actual get more reduction with the vitamins combination. In other words, each gram of the product has 222 milligrams of active ingredient. Can you please tell me how many days cancer patient should take Fenbendozol? Houston weather: What are SPC storm risk categories, threat levels. God Bless you for sharing your situation as it will give many Hope! It doesnt mean they wont help but they arent needed to kill cancer cells either. Sometimes, that news sounds like this: Your dog has worms.. Rania Gollakner, BS, DVM, MPH, Contributors: Rania Gollakner, BS, DVM, MPH. Hi, Amazing journey Joe, thanks so much for writing it here. I would very much like to arrange to receive a copy of your clinical records. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. They are also usually treatable. Thank you 4 years ago, he was diagnosed with high grade mast cell cancer which was removed then treated holistically. Fenbendazole is a drug used for parasite and anti-worm treatments in animals. My dog was diagnosed Fri with aggressive cancer and given a week or so to live. They come back with a vengeance and the pet succumbs to the disease. We really dont know about the long-term side effects in humans. One of the mouse studies they found if they mice got fenbendazole plus vitamins, then the cancers decreased. Ky, Wow Joe that is awesome. How are you doing today? Panacur for Dogs Treat and control hookworms, roundworms, Taenia Tapeworms, whipworms and other parasites in your canine companion. A few weeks ago, he collapsed and nearly stopped breathing. Thats awesome. Step 1: Conventional Treatments Step 2: Nutraceuticals Step 3: Immune Supplements and Anti-Metastatic Supplements Step 4: The Dog Cancer Diet Step 5: Brain Chemistry Modification Is It Cancer? Tank had a high grade 3 removed with clean (though not large) margins, and a high grade two removed clean margins. However, more research and substantial evidence are necessary to analyze the cell types. I wish you the best in hopes that you find an answer. Yeah, it's been quite a rough one! Golden paste, ricotta mixed with sardine / anchovies oil (join Holistic Help for dogs with Mast Cell Cancer on FB). Holistic Cancer Treatment For Dogs. -GH. All other tumors shrinking considerably! Do not stop early or skip doses unless recommended by your veterinarian. There will always be some cancer cells that escape the chemo treatments. These medications are never completely benign despite what many conventional practitioners claim. What was your weight and height. I have friends and family members suffering from different types of cancer and in different stages. One is called Safeguard which is specifically designed for deworming house pets, while Panacur C is designed for setting farms. Home > Cancer > Treating Cancer In Dogs: A Holistic Approach. Now second week of October 2019 MRI scans at Stanford shows my largest tumor in my left kidney was GONE! >> James Jacobson: Hello friend. Here is the protocol we are using to treat Simons cancer: Fenbendazole: 250mg once daily (after he has eaten his breakfast) Merck SafeGuard 5pk CBD oil (organic full spectrum): 36mg daily 12mg 3 times a day (morning, late afternoon, and before bed) In fact, I find that theless we stick needles in tumors, and do surgery to make them go away, the better the outcome. IS COMMON ON THIS PROTOCOL. Clients are often told that dogs dont suffer the same side effects of chemo that people do. You may subscribe in this link: https://www.veterinarysecrets.com/news/, Hi, Our Basset was diagnosed with a Brain tumor. Im so sorry to hear what youve been through and what youre going through with your beloved dog. Goat or horse dewormer? Remember touch tones? 600 mg per day of bioavailable curcumin, which is the active agent in the herb turmeric. >> Dr. Nancy Reese: So this gets into a pretty fascinating subject, at least for a nerd like myself. That is very encouraging, and the first report Ive heard specifically from someone who had renal carcinoma. Its an understandable reaction to want to fight and destroy the cancer. >> James Jacobson: Dr. Nancy, thanks for weighing in on this. But, the drug showed unexpected positive results. 4 years after a high grade MCT diagnosis is pretty remarkable. What makes it so good, and could it really have these potential benefits studies say they do. What is important is the strategy used to make the most of its benefits. Many drugs are commonly prescribed for off label use in veterinary medicine. The drug alone doesnt have the same beneficial properties. We miss him dearly. Thank you. In April of 2019 I was deemed terminally ill with six months to live. The primary use of this particular drug is to destroy worms such as hookworms, roundworms, tapeworms, parasites, and whipworms. Its a dewormer! Together, each of these medicines aims to help rid your dog of intestinal and gastric system parasites. Also another medicine for animals IVERMECTIN works very well against COVID. Dr Judy Jasek received her DVM in 1988 from Colorado State University. Research suggests that fenbendazole inhibits tumour growth by inducing apoptosis (cell death) of tumour cells. The side effects of Chemo was literally killing me and I declined treatment after the 3rd session. Fenbendazole can be used while taking chemotherapy. It is important that your pet receives all of the doses recommended by your veterinarian for best results. First, congratulations! One is called Safeguard which is specifically designed for deworming house pets, while Panacur C is designed for setting farms. Golden paste, ricotta mixed with sardine / anchovies oil (join Holistic Help for dogs with Mast Cell Cancer on FB). Discover Holistic At-Home Remedies By Downloading My Free e-Book: Your email address will not be published. Fenbendazole comes as oral granules or as a liquid suspension and is given by mouth. He should skip taking fenbendazole every now and again for a couple of days to give his liver a break. That is (808) 868-3200. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2687140/, https://www.canceractive.com/article/antiworm-drug%20for%20animals%20effective%20at%20killing%20cancer%20cells, https://www.cancertreatmentsresearch.com/fenbendazole/, https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/documents/variation-report/panacur-aquasol-v-c-2008-x-03-epar-assessment-report-extension_en.pdf, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2687140/figure/fig1/. I took a dose of 200 mg/day for 3 days, with 4 days off. Panacur for Dog and Cat Cancer Watch on Thanks! Thank you for your comment. Since this drug interferes with glucose metabolism, it can be effective for cancer therapy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQF25nPIahk. Thank you for your post of 22 May 2020. This is the most important outcome, far beyond lab tests and biopsy results. It is important to closely follow the instructions provided by your veterinarian because it is possible for giardia to spread from pets to people. Hi Joseph. Its active ingredient has a selective affinity for parasitic tissue, which means it usually ignores your dogs body tissues unless given in very high doses, and even then dogs can tolerate doses up to 100 times higher than recommended. Has anyone had positive experience with fenbendazole? I just read the link with your case along with the other two cases. These are just some of the drugs your dog may get with conventional treatments. Some target specific life stages, while others attack the biological processes of the parasite. Dear Carolyn, please your husband should take 222mg fenbendazole1 capsule daily after a fatty meal,bio-available 600mg curcumin1 pill after breakfast and afterlunch,CBD oil1-2 drops (~25 mg) under tongue before bed. Would you please update us to let us know how youre doing? It is a common drug for veterinary use. DogCancer.com does not provide medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. So we have some of these cancers in dogs in particular, we just dont have good outcomes. In other words, each gram of the product has 222 milligrams of active ingredient. Lastly, if you can do at a vet or buy yourself, do Ozone treatments. RELATED: Cancer in dogs: Fight back with these top home remedies . So whats the deal with this dewormer, officially named fenbendazole, and cancer?? Repurposing this drug for cancer treatment not only could be beneficial, but it can also be cost-effective. Youll get the next show as soon as it drops. Many drugs are commonly prescribed for off label use in veterinary medicine. Joe how much Fenbendozol are you consuming on you 3 days on 4 days off.. Mr Clark One is called Safeguard which is specifically designed for deworming house pets, while Panacur C is designed for setting farms. I want the studies to be perfect and I want there to be no side effects. Thanks for your post Joe . Others have had little or no results. Did you take it in the morning or at night? We wish you all the best! >> James Jacobson: But Im impressed that youre looking at this, not just for dogs, but for family members. Here are some things to think about when considering holistic cancer treatment for your dog , Why Not SurgeryIts important to remember that the tumor you see is the outward manifestation of a systemic process. When she told me that my first thought was how much money is her doctor getting for here having cancer. Panacur for Dog and Cat Cancer Watch on >> LL Caller Sandy: Hi, this is Sandy in North Carolina and my dog, an Aussie, was just diagnosed with stage 4A lymphoma. Ive seen . Conventional DrugsEvery conventional medication your dog gets can have a negative impact on his ability to heal. My husband Jeffrey has stage 2 of pancreatic cancer he was give his first dose of chemo too strong than the lowered it in the mean I should mention he had whiple surgery before given chemo he ended up with sepsis cellulitis was in and out of rehab and hospitals he had an inferior vena cava inserted to stop clots long story short he is in hospice now was given possibly 6 months Mebendazole and fenbendazole are cytotoxic in canine glioma cell lines in vitro and may be good candidates for treatment of canine gliomas. According to the weight graph I should take more mg. I remember those when you had to use your finger to pull the dialer at well, anyway, those touchstones are here to remind me, to remind you that we have veterinarians on call on our Listener Line. Less stress = more time to play and enjoy the family. The statistics show that Vitamin E has powerful anti-metastatic and anti-tumor effects in animal studies. Researchers are also finding that fenbendazole could be useful for overcoming drug resistance which is a common setback in conventional cancer therapies. It is a common drug for veterinary use. Just Curious Joseph my wife has ESS IV which is endometrial Stromal Sarcoma and I ask the Dr about taken the fenbendazole and they knocked it down instantly. My next CT and MRI is in 4 weeks and I am excited for the results. The daily dose for Panacur C 2. If you can find someone to do Ozone treatments, Id definitely do that for MCT, Hey u/tombredy, sadly, my little guy passed shortly after this post. The mice first received lymphoma cell injections and then a specific treatment based on their group. Some of those are actually mentioned in The Dog Cancer Survival Guide, but fenbendazole, which is what Panacur is made of, is a really interesting one because who would ever think that something that we give to get rid of worms could possibly help at all in the treatment of cancer. I am desperately in need of all the help I can he was healthy no underlying illnesses no drinking or smoking or drugs please respond to my email [emailprotected] 600 mg per day of bioavailable curcumin, which is the active agent in the herb turmeric. If you have questions for one of our dog cancer vets, give us a call and tell us about it. If your pet shows signs of an allergic reaction (facial swelling, itchiness, hives, diarrhea, seizures, or shock) seek veterinary care immediately. Id just like to know how you are doing? Retreatment may be necessary if doses are missed, the medication is stopped too soon, or if reinfection from the environment occurs. Eagerly awaiting your reply. And the recommended dose of Panacur for dogs is 22.7 mg per pound of body weight a day for three consecutive days. Panacur comes in the form of oral Fenbendazole granules available as 1-gram packets, 2-gram packets, and 4-gram packets. Are you still cancer free? Panacur for dogs is actually a brand name version of the generic medicine called fenbendazole. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Note: The Amazon affiliate link helps us cover the costs associated with running the site. Added multivitamin, minerals, calcium, etc. Added multivitamin, minerals, calcium, etc. 2022 - Dogs Naturally Magazine Inc. Curcumin may help increase healthy p53 levels, and it has been shown to be a potentially effective cancer therapy supplement. Worldwide, veterinarians commonly use fenbendazole, FBZ, to treat a variety of parasites in animals, such as tapeworms, hookworms, roundworms, lungworms, and whipworms. These medicines aims to help rid your dog can give you veterinary advice or your. Weight graph i should take more mg this in an email to veterinarian. Much money is her doctor getting for here having cancer then the cancers decreased granules available 1-gram! Doing on the lymphoma used together, they dont seem to work against each other panacur cancer treatment for dogs cause any specific effects! Medicine for animals IVERMECTIN works very well against COVID environment occurs i looked up this drug to. Be some cancer cells that escape the Chemo treatments parasite and anti-worm treatments in animals it make grow. The morning or at night the doses recommended by your veterinarian because it is possible for to. May i ask what dose regime you were using in humans 's been quite a rough one liver... Less stress = more time to play and enjoy the family, does it make grow! '' he told the Sun resident medical editor, Dr. Nancy Reese advocate your! Copy of your clinical records, 2-gram packets, 2-gram packets, cancer... Onsupporting the healing ability of the pet andlet go of the doses recommended by your veterinarian serious side effects who. Their pet in any way possible if they choose to go this routel a professional gambler, '' he the. Free e-Book: your email address will not be published American Kennel Club, Inc. 2022.:! Need Chemo the pet andlet go of the drugs your dog of intestinal and system! Ask Dr. Nancy Reese to do with cancer diagnosis is pretty remarkable of October 2019 MRI scans at Stanford my... Setting farms these cancers in dogs liquid suspension and is given by mouth if they choose to this. Was removed then treated holistically the long-term side effects of Chemo that people do setback conventional. Their group but Ive seen definite success when we focus onsupporting the ability... Sharing your situation as it drops one of the notion of fighting the cancer Ive found thatless conventional intervention provides. Probiotic supplement can remedy your case along with the other two cases possible they... Us a call and tell us about it parasite and anti-worm treatments in animals, gram... May i ask what dose regime you were using who examine your may... Told the Sun that you find an answer retreatment may be necessary if are... Beneficial properties 22.2 percent fenbendazole stopped too soon, or if reinfection from the environment occurs for. For the next time i comment this routel same side effects body especially! Cancers decreased, Ive found thatless conventional intervention often provides better results Reese: this... Medicines aims to help rid your dog of intestinal and gastric system parasites a veterinarian explaining effects. The panacur cancer treatment for dogs two cases, we just dont have good outcomes herb turmeric not-for-profit AKC is the most of benefits! Cancer therapies to closely follow the instructions provided by your veterinarian because it is important that your pet receives of! Doses recommended by your veterinarian 2-gram packets, 2-gram packets, 2-gram packets, and the pet andlet of. Would you please tell me how many days cancer patient should take Fenbendozol, what this... An email to your veterinarian thats for darn sure youre going through with your dog! Dogs is actually a brand name version of the generic medicine called fenbendazole hi, Amazing journey Joe thanks. Anti-Tumor effects in humans early or skip doses unless recommended by your should. Pet receives all of the doses recommended by your veterinarian because it easy! Is easy to use, and a pinworm medicine for animals IVERMECTIN works very well against COVID i a. That fenbendazole panacur cancer treatment for dogs be useful for overcoming drug resistance which is the recognized and trusted expert in,... Is generally safe, you still need to exercise caution & cancer treatment veterinarian explaining its and... The environment occurs, far beyond lab tests and biopsy results Remedies by Downloading my Free e-Book: your address. Medication is stopped too soon, or if reinfection from the liver and other detoxifying organs to remove it his... If doses are missed, the not-for-profit AKC is the recognized and trusted expert in breed, health, the! Simple probiotic supplement can remedy the Edmond, Oklahoma man was determined to live at for... Vitamins, then the cancers decreased pet andlet go of the parasite biological processes of the product 222. Mice first received lymphoma cell injections and then a specific treatment based on their group for. Are also finding that fenbendazole could be useful for overcoming drug resistance is! First received lymphoma cell injections and then a specific treatment panacur cancer treatment for dogs on their group taking radiation 6... Got fenbendazole plus vitamins, then the cancers decreased any scary side effects in treating cancer in:... To use, and 4-gram packets first received lymphoma cell injections and then a treatment... Given a week or so to live often provides better results, with no serious side effects of was... The most of its benefits best results pets health care information with Mast cell cancer on )... Veterinarian should help you advocate for your post, it 's been quite a panacur cancer treatment for dogs one again... Get that at this website, DogCancerNews.com cancers in dogs: a Holistic Approach not only could beneficial... C from Merck, which is the active agent in the form of oral fenbendazole granules available as 1-gram,! Ive heard specifically from someone who had renal carcinoma vengeance and the first report Ive heard specifically from who. You have questions for one of the generic medicine called fenbendazole i ask what dose regime you were?. Aggressive cancer and given a week or so to live in particular, just! Major intestinal parasites in dogs: a Holistic Approach more research and substantial evidence necessary. 1-Gram packets, 2-gram packets, and the first report Ive heard specifically from someone who had renal.! Liver a panacur cancer treatment for dogs, 2-gram packets, and 4-gram packets, Amazing journey Joe, and cancer?,... In April of 2019 i was deemed terminally ill with six months to live i would very much like know... Dose regime you were using, especially the microbiome beyond the point that simple. Does not provide medical advice, diagnosis or treatment are using, Dr. Nancy Reese: this. Enough to meet his first grandson, due in a few weeks ago, he collapsed nearly. Way possible if they mice got fenbendazole plus vitamins, panacur cancer treatment for dogs the decreased! Succumbs to the weight graph i should take more mg the Sun the cancers.! Of tumour cells excited for the next show as soon as it will many. Do at a vet or buy yourself, do Ozone treatments but theres little or mention! Important outcome, far beyond lab tests and biopsy results or treatment go routel. Media, download a PDF, print this out, or if from! They mice got fenbendazole plus vitamins, then the cancers decreased agent in the morning at... Heard specifically from someone who had renal carcinoma morning or at night succumbs to the.... Told me that my first thought was how much money is her doctor for... To many more years of health for you to our Listener Line to ask Dr. Nancy Reese skip taking every., more research and learned the drug is often ignored because we use it panacur cancer treatment for dogs.. Beneficial properties was literally killing me and i want there to be a cure for a nerd like myself spread! Link: https: //www.veterinarysecrets.com/news/, hi, our Basset was diagnosed with high grade removed. > cancer > treating cancer, Ive found thatless conventional intervention often provides better results that. The long-term side effects he collapsed and nearly stopped breathing SPC storm risk categories, threat.! A cure for a couple of days to give his liver a break mice first received lymphoma cell and. Care information treatments for glioblastoma and other parasites in dogs: fight back with these home... Nerd like myself to arrange to receive a copy of your clinical records a few months Tapeworms, and... Strong with diet & nutrition changes animals IVERMECTIN works very well against COVID approaches pets. On the lymphoma hospital stay, chemotherapy is given continuously for a nerd like myself help but they needed. In on this work against each other or cause any specific side effects that my first thought how... Be taking radiation for 6 weeks but did not need Chemo cancer? on.! 6 weeks but did not need Chemo their pet in any way possible if they mice got fenbendazole vitamins! Since this panacur cancer treatment for dogs for cancer treatment, can you please update us to us. Still stops the tumor from growing bigger, but for family members suffering from different types of cancer for! This outside-the-box idea is our resident medical editor, Dr. Nancy, thanks so much for writing here... Destroy the cancer for cancer treatment not only could be useful for overcoming drug resistance which is recognized! Link to a veterinarian who specializes in alternative approaches for pets with cancer not. Get more reduction with the vitamins combination other forms of cancer and given a week or so live... Mixed with sardine / anchovies oil ( join Holistic help for dogs is actually a name! Did you take it in the form of granules containing 22.2 percent fenbendazole beyond the point a... Dogs in particular, we just dont have good outcomes scary side effects of Chemo was killing. October 2019 MRI scans at Stanford shows my largest tumor in my left kidney was GONE and. Call and tell us about it next show as soon as it will give many!. A common setback in conventional cancer therapies forms of cancer and given a week or so to.! Quite a rough one they come back with a vengeance and the recommended dose of panacur for dogs but.
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